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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2

  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
21:56 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Well, if the majority here voted for Corbyn's Government to be in power — there is not a lot I could do, I would have to accept the result of the democratic vote. One has to accept the results of the elections, unless they are rigged of course. We had to stand Blair for nearly 15 years here and our family didn't vote for him, but he did have a healthy majority and there was nothing to be done about it
quoted1
And what if Corbyn came to power by force? Without any vote. And May barely escaped with some injured guards?

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> The reason they consider your country not a democracy, but a regime — is because there is no opposition, no independent media, everything is in the hands of the State. So there is no level playing field for the opposition to grow and thrive. Who knows — if there was, people might not have elected Putin. You might have a new leader in power now. Even though I doubt it to be honest — they would have still elected Putin cause they love him cause of Crimea, etc. But still — well, you get my point, surely.
quoted1
There are independent media in Russia. But I agree with you about opposition, there aren't any more or less decent oppostiton to support atm (thanks to Putin).

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Now, as regards US interference in the political process in Ukraine- it is not the Americans who offered the Ukrainian Government billions of pounds in order to walk away from his pre election commitment to lead Ukraine to a closer relationship with the EU. It was Putin who did it, sort of tried to bribe him. This is what I call interference, not some «Maidan biscuit» or a silly tape. It is nothing — compared to the scale of Putin's interference with his bribes. And believe me — I do not particularly like the EU. But people there were promised one thing, then some tzar gives another tzar some dosh (that's slang for money) and that is it, he decides to walk all over his promise. This is what was unacceptable to the Ukrainians.
quoted1
Well, Yanukovych was promising different things to different people. Actually, he lied to everybody, that is one of the reasons he ended like that.
Btw, It's not just a silly tape, it was a full-scale «colour revolution» I bet you know this term. Obama kinda admitted it.

And what do you mean by tried to bribe him? Putin officially offered Ukraine (not Yanukovych) 15 billion dollars credit, it is more than US, EU and IMF combined gave to Ukraine since Maidan. And Putin was offering it without any additional obligations like IFM does. You know that unpopular measures like raising tariffs etc. Actually, it was a better deal than joining EU on the terms of accociated member.
Also Yanukovych wasn't elected on promises to take Ukraine to the EU, quite the opposite. He was elected by pro-Russian people in Ukraine. He promised them many things about strengthening ties with Russia (which he didn't of course, because he was another pro-himself and pro-money bastard like 99% of politicians in Ukraine or Russia are).
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
22:12 07.02.2019
But enough of this political stuff. Let's end on some positive note!

Go team Tutberidze!



Liked: Redhead
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
23:00 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>
> So there has been absolutely no progress towards a more democratic political system since Maidan? No changes for the better — at all? That's a real shame. Well, anyways — good luck with the elections.
quoted1
Actually, there is progress. But it is very poor. The biggest success of Ukraine is that our country will never be in Russian influence again, though only after 10,000 people killed and 2 regions lost. All sanctions against Russia are still on because of Poroshenko's foreign policy, and that is his greatest achievement, including also autocephaly for church and 'безвіз'. But Poroshenko doesn't fight corruption, he doesn't want reform to be carried on and our economy is still based on natural goods. Just imagine, that we can produce our own superior UAVs, but instead we buy Turkish second-hand! It is horrible. And parliament is not so active and full of populists, button pushers (persons who votep twice or more during a single procedure) etc.

The greatest achievement of Maidan is that society is no longer in Yanukovich type 'stability'. People speak aloud about Handziuk, corruption, oligarchs and 5th column inside the government. But there is no support of this trend in the government. That's the problem.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
23:06 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> Mate, even if — and that is a big if — as you are obviously retranslating the RT propaganda channel, all this is true — authenticity of the tape, tanks, etc. This is a laughable, shambolic excuse. It is your own politicians that bear responsibility for everything that goes on in your countries. If they made a decision to take Nuland's advice — well, it is down to them. And it is up to the West — who they choose to support. (Your politicians stirred separatism in Ukraine and fomented the war in Donbass — that is a lot worse than saying something on the tape, isn't it?)
>> Obama came here and Clinton came over here and heavily supported the Remain in the EU campaign. He even said that the UK would be the last in the queue for a trade deal with the US if people voted for Brexit. People still voted for Brexit and our politicians are dealing with it (not dealing with it very well, but there you go.)
quoted2
>I get your idea. Of course Russian and Ukrainian politicans bear the great deal of responsibility of what has happened in Ukraine. But you should differ coming to the country to say a few words in support of smth and staging a coup. You can always ignore anyone who came to help one politician agains the other. But if you woke up and suddenly Corbyn is you new PM and Britain is joining Customs Union with Russia all of a sudden the only opiton you have is to fight for you life and for you ideals with the arms in your hands. I have no doubts you'll do it withoul hesitation But majority of people won't.
> I'm exaggerating here of course. My idea that the level of US interferance in interim Ukrainian political processes was unacceptable. As we say it «после случившегося он обязан на ней жениться».
quoted1
Of course there was American intervention, wasn't it? They lied to our citizens about 'banderas' and 'blood thirsty nationalists', they blocked Ukrainian military bases and occupied Crimean parliament and, I suppose, that scum made of strelkovs, mozgovoys, borodais are American citizens. And, of course, Nuland's biscuits!
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
09:23 08.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
>> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>>> Mate, even if — and that is a big if — as you are obviously retranslating the RT propaganda channel, all this is true — authenticity of the tape, tanks, etc. This is a laughable, shambolic excuse. It is your own politicians that bear responsibility for everything that goes on in your countries. If they made a decision to take Nuland's advice — well, it is down to them. And it is up to the West — who they choose to support. (Your politicians stirred separatism in Ukraine and fomented the war in Donbass — that is a lot worse than saying something on the tape, isn't it?)
>>> Obama came here and Clinton came over here and heavily supported the Remain in the EU campaign. He even said that the UK would be the last in the queue for a trade deal with the US if people voted for Brexit. People still voted for Brexit and our politicians are dealing with it (not dealing with it very well, but there you go.)
quoted3
>>I get your idea. Of course Russian and Ukrainian politicans bear the great deal of responsibility of what has happened in Ukraine. But you should differ coming to the country to say a few words in support of smth and staging a coup. You can always ignore anyone who came to help one politician agains the other. But if you woke up and suddenly Corbyn is you new PM and Britain is joining Customs Union with Russia all of a sudden the only opiton you have is to fight for you life and for you ideals with the arms in your hands. I have no doubts you'll do it withoul hesitation But majority of people won't.
>> I'm exaggerating here of course. My idea that the level of US interferance in interim Ukrainian political processes was unacceptable. As we say it «после случившегося он обязан на ней жениться».
quoted2
>Of course there was American intervention, wasn't it? They lied to our citizens about 'banderas' and 'blood thirsty nationalists', they blocked Ukrainian military bases and occupied Crimean parliament and, I suppose, that scum made of strelkovs, mozgovoys, borodais are American citizens. And, of course, Nuland's biscuits!
quoted1
You got me wrong, I'm not trying to prove Russia is your friend or smth (just look at my posts above). Frankly speaking you are getting f-ed from both sides. If you think that what US did to your country was ok, well, probably, you need more time to realise what has happened.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
09:51 08.02.2019
Redhead (Expat),
And one more fact about Poroshenko. For some reasons his PR team copycats Putin's methods to raise Poroshenko's ratings.

Here is some examples







Putin is using church to improve his ratings, Poroshenko is trying to use church to improve his ratings. Many people in Russia think that success in Syria is more important that their own economic welfare.
As you can see it from ⍟ Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) posts, he also thinks that «tomos» is a real Poroshenko's success despite the fact that it didn't affect his life at all. Let alone the fact that many european countries (like Austria for example) don't have their «own» church and they are ok with that.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
11:47 08.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> And what if Corbyn came to power by force? Without any vote. And May barely escaped with some injured guards?
quoted1
>

That wouldn't have happened here. There are enough inherent tools within the democratic set up here for power to change peacefully. Including strong opposition forces, very different points of view expressed in the media, freedom of protest and speech, freedom to strike with the help of strong trade unions, etc. This is the whole point, that a lot of Russians fail to understand — one needs all these things not for the purpose of staging some coup and violently sweeping away current authorities, but for the purpose of insuring peaceful power changes. This is what democracy is all about. Coups and revolutions are the last resort and the more authoritarian the set up, the more risk of such things happening exists. Because in authoritarian set ups the connection between people in power and people at large is eroded
But even here — now and again there is rioting if people feel they are not treated fairly and their concerns are not being adequately addressed. Right now we have been having protests re Brexit — from both Remainers and Leavers, cause people are unhappy with the way Brexit has been handled by May. Likewise, her deal was voted down by both sides in Parliament. So she was forced to try and seek alternative arrangements with the EU, even though just a few weeks ago she continued to insist «It is her deal or there will be no Brexit at all». She was forced to change tack — peacefully. This is just an example of how democracy works in practice.

Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> There are independent media in Russia. But I agree with you about opposition, there aren't any more or less decent oppostiton to support atm (thanks to Putin).
quoted1
>

There are some independent media outlets in Russia, but they don't get any prime time in the mainstream — TV, etc. And in the mainstream there is a strong campaign in discrediting them. They serve like «scapegoats» for those media outlets, that heavily promote the Government view, which is biased in one direction. Here we have those channels on TV that support LAbour more or main newspapers, and those who support the Government more. And also those who support neither — for example the Telegraph supports Tory Eurosceptics much more than May, the Independent supports Lib Dems more than others, etc.. All this is in the mainstream. And any kind of slander of different viewpoints contradicting the Government's viewpoint is not allowed

Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
> And what do you mean by tried to bribe him? Putin officially offered Ukraine (not Yanukovych) 15 billion dollars credit, it is more than US, EU and IMF combined gave to Ukraine since Maidan. And Putin was offering it without any additional obligations like IFM does. You know that unpopular measures like raising tariffs etc. Actually, it was a better deal than joining EU on the terms of accociated member.
> Also Yanukovych wasn't elected on promises to take Ukraine to the EU, quite the opposite. He was elected by pro-Russian people in Ukraine. He promised them many things about strengthening ties with Russia (which he didn't of course, because he was another pro-himself and pro-money bastard like 99% of politicians in Ukraine or Russia are).
quoted1

Here they used to present the situation differently. They said that the reason Yanukovich was elected last time around was cause he promised to lead Ukraine to a much closer integration with the EU. And once Putin made his offer, he reneged on his promise and that is what started the protests — first amongst their students, and then when those were quelled with violence — others joined in.
It is childish and silly to put it all down to «colour revolution» and some tapes. It honestly is. It reminds me of those here who say that Brexit and Trump were organised by Putin. The same kind of childish and silly analysis.

P. S. I got to go now, have a nice day)
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
12:11 08.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Here they used to present the situation differently. They said that the reason Yanukovich was elected last time around was cause he promised to lead Ukraine to a much closer integration with the EU. And once Putin made his offer, he reneged on his promise and that is what started the protests — first amongst their students, and then when those were quelled with violence — others joined in.
quoted1
As far as I know, your media often present Yanukovich as pro-Russian president. Is it logical that pro-Russian president was elected cause he promised to lead Ukraine to a much closer integration with the EU? Pro-EU Ukrainians never voted for him or for someone like him

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> It is childish and silly to put it all down to «colour revolution» and some tapes. It honestly is. It reminds me of those here who say that Brexit and Trump were organised by Putin. The same kind of childish and silly analysis.
quoted1
Say what you want, but that coup in 2014 wasn't possible without the help from abroad. Top US officials (like Obama) admitted they broke the deal. It is too late to pretend their interference was immaterial.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
12:12 08.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> P. S. I got to go now, have a nice day)
quoted1
Have a nice day too
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
14:05 08.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> As far as I know, your media often present Yanukovich as pro-Russian president. Is it logical that pro-Russian president was elected cause he promised to lead Ukraine to a much closer integration with the EU? Pro-EU Ukrainians never voted for him or for someone like him
>
quoted1

Yes, this does sound confusing and illogical, but that is what they used to cite here as the initial reason for the start of student protests there — the fact that he broke his promise to lead Ukraine to the closer integration with the EU. And when those initial protests were crushed with a lot of violence, they grew larger in scale. This would have happened in any democratic country to be honest.
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Say what you want, but that coup in 2014 wasn't possible without the help from abroad. Top US officials (like Obama) admitted they broke the deal. It is too late to pretend their interference was immaterial.
quoted1

Thank you — I do prefer to say what I like and not what others necessarily want to hear.
Obama's administration admitted to brokering a deal. So? That doesn't mean «staging a coup». You present Ukrainian people as silly muppets, who were happy as Larry with Yanukovich and here came evil Americans and staged a colour revolution. This is a rather simplistic view of things, don't you find? It will wash with those who are zombied senseless by your propaganda, but not with those who tend to think for themselves a little.
To broker a deal means to act as a go between, trying to reach an agreement between different parties. In business — it often means brokering a deal between say investors and those who are in need of investment for example. In politics — it means brokering/agreeing a deal between conflicting parties — in this situation between Yanukovich and those who were opposed to his course of action. This was to prevent more violence from happening. The main violence followed in Ukraine from the Russian side. It is not the Americans who fomented violence in Ukraine (Donbass), seized territories, etc. These were the Russians. Whether you like it or not, mate. It never hurts to face the truth.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
15:12 08.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Yes, this does sound confusing and illogical, but that is what they used to cite here as the initial reason for the start of student protests there — the fact that he broke his promise to lead Ukraine to the closer integration with the EU. And when those initial protests were crushed with a lot of violence, they grew larger in scale. This would have happened in any democratic country to be honest.
quoted1
Yanukovych indeed was elected as pro-Russian candidate. But he broke his promises. Than he was trying to play around joining EU to milk more money from Putin. But it didn't go as he planned.

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Thank you — I do prefer to say what I like and not what others necessarily want to hear
quoted1
Is that phrase — say what you want — that rude or it is just you overreacting to some neutral phrase?
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Obama's administration admitted to brokering a deal. So? That doesn't mean «staging a coup»
quoted1
In case you forgot what are we talking about they had a deal on 21st February 2014 between Yanukovych and opposition,
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BC%D0%B5...
It was broken in less than 24 hours

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> You present Ukrainian people as silly muppets, who were happy as Larry with Yanukovich
quoted1
As I sad before he betrayed the hopes both of pro-Russian and pro-EU Ukrainians. But his approval rating was close to 30%, it is much higher than Poroshenko has now.

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> This is a rather simplistic view of things, don't you find?
quoted1
No, it is a harsh truth. Sometimes I admire you ability to deny well-known facts. Even the most hooray-patriots nowadays don't say that Maidan happened completely spontaneously. They tend to realise that some bastards used them to fulfill their own agenda.

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> he main violence followed in Ukraine from the Russian side. It is not the Americans who fomented violence in Ukraine (Donbass), seized territories, etc. These were the Russians. Whether you like it or not, mate. It never hurts to face the truth.
quoted1
The violence started before any attempts from Russia to interfere. And the decision to use army against own people was illegal. Turchynov should be jailed for life for this.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
15:38 08.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Is that phrase — say what you want — that rude or it is just you overreacting to some neutral phrase?
quoted1

It is not «rude rude», but comes across as a bit abrupt. You would have been better off saying something like «You are of course entitled to your opinion, but …» or you could «cushion» it by saying «with all due respect, you can say whatever you like now, but then…», etc. It depends on who you are talking to of course, but in business and in politics — the politer the form, the more punch the content packs .if you like. In British parliament for example they dress things up in a very polite way, but the contents sometimes is what you would call «aggressive and abusive», but the form in which it is dressed is so polite — it goes. It is similar in business negotiations.


Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> It was broken in less than 24 hours
quoted1
>

You are mixing up two different verbs — to break (broke, broken) and to broker. To broker a deal, not to break a deal. A deal was brokered. The verb is the same as the noun «a broker».
Sorry, I am not trying to be a smart ass or anything, just thought you would like to know.
I will answer the rest later. Cheerio.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
17:03 08.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> It is not «rude rude», but comes across as a bit abrupt. You would have been better off saying something like «You are of course entitled to your opinion, but …» or you could «cushion» it by saying «with all due respect, you can say whatever you like now, but then…», etc. It depends on who you are talking to of course, but in business and in politics — the politer the form, the more punch the content packs .if you like. In British parliament for example they dress things up in a very polite way, but the contents sometimes is what you would call «aggressive and abusive», but the form in which it is dressed is so polite — it goes. It is similar in business negotiations
quoted1
Thanks! Sometimes phrases that don't have negative connotations in Russian sounds rude in English and vice versa.
For example Daniil Gleichengauz who works as a choreographer in Eteri Tutberidze's team once said about Alena

--
Алена очень хорошая девочка. И внутри этой маленькой миленькой девочки сидит чертенок. Чертенок-чертенок. Маленькая стервочка. Но это здорово! Я очень люблю такой характер. Потому что люди с таким характером — живые. Ты видишь, что человек радуется, расстраивается, переживает. Он передает свои эмоции. И когда он катает свои программы, ты веришь тому, что он показывает на льду, потому что все это искренне.

Алена пришла к нам в конце прошлого сезона. И в принципе по ее прыжкам мы понимали, что там можно тоже прыгать четверные. Алена обладает очень хорошим толчком. На полу она прыгает вообще выше всех девочек. Да и мальчиков, наверное.


And English-speaking fans overreacted to his words. They were like — He called her a little b*tch? Litte devil? wut? How could he… etc.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
17:13 08.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> You are mixing up two different verbs — to break (broke, broken) and to broker. To broker a deal, not to break a deal. A deal was brokered. The verb is the same as the noun «a broker».
> Sorry, I am not trying to be a smart ass or anything, just thought you would like to know.
quoted1
haha, no, i'm not mixing it up. Obama said they broke the deal that means they helped to organize the transfer of power from Yanukovich to opposition. But in fact what kind of deal it was? There was a agreement between Ukrainian president and Ukrainian opposition guaranteed by EU representatives.
You know one lady from Washington called to US ambassyin Ukrainian and said —



The things turned ugly in the end as we all know it. I'm sure Poroshenko and Yats would not dare to make EU representatives look like a bunch of clowns on their own.
Imagine that the «deal» was never «broken» (haha). According to that agreement Yanokovych would retire in less than 6 months (as far as I remember), Putin would not invade Ukraine, things could go in a more postive way for Ukraine.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
17:51 08.02.2019

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