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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2

  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
10:29 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Thank you very much for the explanation. Of course I heard of Timoshenko, Poroshenko, etc. But the good news is — there are some new characters on the scene and to be honest — what is good to see is the progress in terms of political fight and debate. Ukraine in that sense resembles Britain more than Russia and it is good news. In Russia they are scared and absolutely petrified of any opposition, they can not accept that concept and react like Chihua hua dogs if you talk about any opposition — period. What is nice to see — at least in Ukraine the mentality is changing, there is more healthy debate, critical attitude to things, etc. In Russia it is unfortunately all about praising the leaders, etc. Ukraine is getting to become a much healthier society. When is the election taking place?
quoted1
I think I should add a few words to Oleksa Єromіn explanation about the candidates he mentioned.
Zelenski (that comedian) is a puppet of Kolomoyskyi, he won't bow before Putin because he isn't going to win anyway. There is a kind of agreement between Timoshenko and Kolomoiskyi against Poroshenko, so Zeleniski aim is to get into the final tour together with Timoshenko and then he will admit his defeat.
Of course this agreement isn't official and I won't be able to give you a link to BBC or CNN to prove my words this time As an indirect proof I can say that Timoshenko and Zelenski don't criticize each other.

Now to Boyko. Ex-regionals are in pathetic state at the moment, they have no support in Ukraine (even in the Eastern regions). They are in the same position like liberal pro-western politicians are in Russia. No one takes them seriously. I noticed that Boyko was invited to some media channels which belong to Poroshenko. I'd say Boyko is Poroshenko's failed attempt to make a useful «opponent» for himself in the finals.

One funny thing, Russia tried to unite ex-regionals with Russia-friendly rhetoric (Boyko, Muraev and Vilkul). It was an epic fail because Bokyo is Poroshenko's puppet, Muraev and Vilkul have their own agenda and they know no one takes them seriously anyway. So in the end Russia imposed sanctions on so-called «pro-Russian» politicians in Ukraine

If we compare Poroshenko and Tymoshenko, there aren't many differences between them. Poroshenko took far right stance, Timoshenko is kinda centrist. Other than that, they are pretty much the same

I can't agree with you about healthy changes in Ukraine. Your propaganda machine is trying hard to sugarcoat everything what is happening in Ukraine. But in fact you have to be completely unaware of the situation there to say that Ukraine became more democratic or more like Britain.

Ukraine was more democratic than Russia before the coup in 2014. The debates you call healthy changes are the remnants of Yanukovych times. If you ask some of your friends from Glory to Ukraine group, they will probably say smth like — yes, we are having hard times, corruption is flourishing, freedom of speech is diminishing but it's because of the war with Russia. It is ok to send people to jail just for their opinion because it is war with Russia. It is okay to strip elders from their pensions because of the war with Russia etc.

Here is more or less sane article about what is going on in Ukraine.
https://inosmi.ru/social/20190207/244527066.html...
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
15:17 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> But the good news is — there are some new characters on the scene and to be honest — what is good to see is the progress in terms of political fight and debate.
quoted1
Come on, Redhead… Ukraine is honestly just an anarchic version of Russia now. These new faces haven't done anything because they became corrupted too, or they were cornered by already corrupted players (like Mustafa Nayem). There are no debates also. Just trolling, abuses and insults. Politicians just compete with each other in populism. Tymoshenko is telling about 'зубожіння' (stands for very harsh poverty), Poroshenko calls every journalist reminding him about murdered Katya Handziuk and corruption in all branches of government (including army what is of crucial importance for Ukraine) 'Moscow provocateurs', Zelenksyi is just a clown and political prostitute and others just can't propose anything good at all. We are very, very far from British system.
> When is the election taking place?
>
quoted1
On the 31st of March.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
15:57 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
> Here is more or less sane article about what is going on in Ukraine.
> https://inosmi.ru/social/20190207/244527066.html...
quoted1

Thank you for the info, I will have a look at the article later. They don't talk about Ukraine that much here at all anymore. Not like they did a few years ago when the Crimean events were gong on, Boeing, etc. It used to be covered in every news bulletin on every channel here. Now they hardly ever mention it.
In any case — all we have been hearing for the past two years is Brexit, Brexit, Brexit. And it is not good news at the moment either

Brexit latest news: UK and EU locked in Brexit stalemate after Theresa May and Jean-Claude Juncker refuse to budge in crunch talks
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/02/07/...

They are probably going to extend the Article 50 to stop the UK crashing out with No Deal. But even if they do it for a few months (the EU have been suggesting a few months' extension until summer, which is when there will be European Parliament Elections). The only thing is what these extra few months are gonna achieve? They have had two and a half years and it is unlikely that either the UK's position or the EU's is going to change on the Irish border issue. Yesterday Tusk said that «Brexiteers deserve a place in hell «or something stupid like that.

These kind of articles are scary
Will your passport be valid for travel to the EU after Brexit?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/will-you...

By the way, BBC are facing pro EU bias accusations again, as it now turns out that they have been receiving millions of euros in funding from the EU and have a conflict of interest.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
15:58 07.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Come on, Redhead… Ukraine is honestly just an anarchic version of Russia now. These new faces haven't done anything because they became corrupted too, or they were cornered by already corrupted players (like Mustafa Nayem). There are no debates also. Just trolling, abuses and insults. Politicians just compete with each other in populism. Tymoshenko is telling about 'зубожіння' (stands for very harsh poverty), Poroshenko calls every journalist reminding him about murdered Katya Handziuk and corruption in all branches of government (including army what is of crucial importance for Ukraine) 'Moscow provocateurs', Zelenksyi is just a clown and political prostitute and others just can't propose anything good at all. We are very, very far from British system.
quoted1

So there has been absolutely no progress towards a more democratic political system since Maidan ? No changes for the better — at all? That's a real shame. Well, anyways - good luck with the elections.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
17:25 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> So there has been absolutely no progress towards a more democratic political system since Maidan? No changes for the better — at all? That's a real shame
quoted1
Yes, Ukraine became less democratic since Maidan.
Big cheers for ⍟ Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER), for fairly admitting the sad truths. They have a piece of shit (Poroshenko) and a dogs dinner (Timoshenko). If Poroshenko wins it will be a sad day for Ukraine. Also I think it will be a nice day for Putin, because Poroshenko is a very convenient for him as Ukrainian president. The worse situation in Ukraine is the better for Kremlin.

I also remind you, that some time ago I said that after it will become impossible to sugarcoat the situation in Ukraine your media will say that it's Ukrainians fault they failed to become democratic country with competitive economy. My opinion, you can't become one it someone has appointed a person who can sell his babies for two pennies as your president.
Let's wait and see if my words come true.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
19:51 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Big cheers for ⍟ Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER), for fairly admitting the sad truths. They have a piece of shit (Poroshenko) and a dogs dinner (Timoshenko). If Poroshenko wins it will be a sad day for Ukraine. Also I think it will be a nice day for Putin, because Poroshenko is a very convenient for him as Ukrainian president. The worse situation in Ukraine is the better for Kremlin.
quoted1

Yes, it is nice to see when someone admits unpleasant truths about their own country. Many Russians on the forum don't do that. They tend to be very judgemental about other countries — especially Ukraine and their politicians, when it comes to their own country and those who are in charge of it, if anyone criticizes what goes on in Russia — instead of admitting to some truths — they get on the offensive. But not all of them of course. The forum has changed dramatically over the last couple of years and lots of Russians are now writing the truth instead of embellishing everything in a pseudo patriotic way.
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
>
>
quoted1

Our media doesn't sugar coat what is happening in Ukraine, not particularly. There was tons of negativity about Russia during the Crimean crisis, but after that the Ukrainian topic has died down.
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> it's Ukrainians fault they failed to become democratic country with competitive economy
quoted1

Well, whose fault should it be? Americans' or Brits' fault? You have a strange mentality whereby you guys think that the whole world owes you something, it doesn't. You blame the West for what happened in your country in the 90s and you are searching for the blame for what's happening in Ukraine — not in Ukraine, but elsewhere.
In Britain for example there has been lots of crises over the years, booms and busts, etc. I have never heard any politicians trying to search for the blame elsewhere. In the 70s — there was a massive crisis, default, credits from the IMF, very harsh reforms. When Thatcher took over it was like in Ukraine. There was also a war on the island of Ireland, lots of terrorism in England from the Irish nationalists. Thatcher had to get rid of lots of factories, because they were not profitable and continued to exist only because the trade unions were too powerful and made the Government subsidize unprofitable enterprises very heavily, bankrupting the country. But she dealt with it, didn't blame anyone else. We had a crisis in the 90s as well- I have never heard once here that somehow it is not the fault of people and politicians here, but someone else's.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
19:59 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat),
Since you liked Yagudin's winter, I found one in a better quality for you


His 2002 free skate «Man in the iron mask» isn't that famous, but it is also very nice program. I hope you'll like it too)


Actually, I'm so happy you liked Yagudin! Here in Russia many people say he was nuber 2 (after Plushenko). For me Yagudin is always number 1!
Liked: Redhead
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
20:00 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
>
> Actually, I'm so happy you liked Yagudin! Here in Russia many people say he was nuber 2 (after Plushenko). For me Yagudin is always number 1!
quoted1

Thank you very much, that' s lovely, I will watch it later.
Liked: Grin
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
20:12 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Well, whose fault should it be? Americans' or Brits' fault?
quoted1
Why not? Nuland confirmed the autentivitity of the tape where she dictates to US ambassador in Ukraine that Poroshenko should be next president, Yatsenyuk — next prime minister and so on (I don't remeber exact words, but she was meaning it). And than surprise-surprise — a bit later Poroshenko became Ukrainian president and Yats became prime minister.
US former vice president Joe Biden wrote in his book that he called Poroshenko and demanded to fire the attorney general and Poroshenko did it (in a few hours). Do you know the saying «мы в ответе за тех, кого приручили»?

Imagine you have a new boss who is a complete moron but in the end everybody is saing that the fault is all yours?

It was pretty much the same in Russia. Your leaders supported the guy who used tanks against Russian parliament




Now you lament there is no democracy in Russia. Well, if you didn't help to kill it with fire, probably Russia could be more democratic
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
20:24 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
>
> Now you lament there is no democracy in Russia. Well, if you didn't help to kill it with fire, probably Russia could be more democratic
quoted1

Mate, even if — and that is a big if — as you are obviously retranslating the RT propaganda channel, all this is true — authenticity of the tape, tanks, etc. This is a laughable, shambolic excuse. It is your own politicians that bear responsibility for everything that goes on in your countries. If they made a decision to take Nuland's advice — well, it is down to them. And it is up to the West — who they choose to support. (Your politicians stirred separatism in Ukraine and fomented the war in Donbass — that is a lot worse than saying something on the tape, isn't it?)
Obama came here and Clinton came over here and heavily supported the Remain in the EU campaign. He even said that the UK would be the last in the queue for a trade deal with the US if people voted for Brexit. People still voted for Brexit and our politicians are dealing with it (not dealing with it very well, but there you go.)
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
20:25 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> They don't talk about Ukraine that much here at all anymore
quoted1
I'm curious why your media don't talk much about war in Yemen like they did about war in Syria. Oh, I completely forgot (not really) that Saudy Arabia (your ally) is invading Yemen and Briatin is helping Saudi Arabia.

Well, at least you media don't say that Saudi Arabia is invading to restore democracy (sic!).
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
20:29 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> They don't talk about Ukraine that much here at all anymore
quoted2
>I'm curious why your media don't talk much about war in Yemen like they did about war in Syria. Oh, I completely forgot (not really) that Saudy Arabia (your ally) is invading Yemen and Briatin is helping Saudi Arabia.
>
> Well, at least you media don't say that Saudi Arabia is invading to restore democracy (sic!).
quoted1

All I hear about Yemen is there are lots of charity organisations here trying to address the humanitarian crisis there. I don't know much about it, sorry. I got to go now, have a nice evening.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
20:35 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Mate, even if — and that is a big if — as you are obviously retranslating the RT propaganda channel, all this is true — authenticity of the tape, tanks, etc. This is a laughable, shambolic excuse. It is your own politicians that bear responsibility for everything that goes on in your countries. If they made a decision to take Nuland's advice — well, it is down to them. And it is up to the West — who they choose to support. (Your politicians stirred separatism in Ukraine and fomented the war in Donbass — that is a lot worse than saying something on the tape, isn't it?)
> Obama came here and Clinton came over here and heavily supported the Remain in the EU campaign. He even said that the UK would be the last in the queue for a trade deal with the US if people voted for Brexit. People still voted for Brexit and our politicians are dealing with it (not dealing with it very well, but there you go.)
quoted1
I get your idea. Of course Russian and Ukrainian politicans bear the great deal of responsibility of what has happened in Ukraine. But you should differ coming to the country to say a few words in support of smth and staging a coup. You can always ignore anyone who came to help one politician agains the other. But if you woke up and suddenly Corbyn is you new PM and Britain is joining Customs Union with Russia all of a sudden the only opiton you have is to fight for you life and for you ideals with the arms in your hands. I have no doubts you'll do it withoul hesitation But majority of people won't.
I'm exaggerating here of course. My idea that the level of US interferance in interim Ukrainian political processes was unacceptable. As we say it «после случившегося он обязан на ней жениться».
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
20:35 07.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> I got to go now, have a nice evening.
quoted1
Have a nice evening too
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
20:56 07.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> Mate, even if — and that is a big if — as you are obviously retranslating the RT propaganda channel, all this is true — authenticity of the tape, tanks, etc. This is a laughable, shambolic excuse. It is your own politicians that bear responsibility for everything that goes on in your countries. If they made a decision to take Nuland's advice — well, it is down to them. And it is up to the West — who they choose to support. (Your politicians stirred separatism in Ukraine and fomented the war in Donbass — that is a lot worse than saying something on the tape, isn't it?)
>> Obama came here and Clinton came over here and heavily supported the Remain in the EU campaign. He even said that the UK would be the last in the queue for a trade deal with the US if people voted for Brexit. People still voted for Brexit and our politicians are dealing with it (not dealing with it very well, but there you go.)
quoted2
>I get your idea. Of course Russian and Ukrainian politicans bear the great deal of responsibility of what has happened in Ukraine. But you should differ coming to the country to say a few words in support of smth and staging a coup. You can always ignore anyone who came to help one politician agains the other. But if you woke up and suddenly Corbyn is you new PM and Britain is joining Customs Union with Russia all of a sudden the only opiton you have is to fight for you life and for you ideals with the arms in your hands. I have no doubts you'll do it withoul hesitation But majority of people won't.
> I'm exaggerating here of course. My idea that the level of US interferance in interim Ukrainian political processes was unacceptable. As we say it «после случившегося он обязан на ней жениться».
quoted1

Well, if the majority here voted for Corbyn's Government to be in power — there is not a lot I could do, I would have to accept the result of the democratic vote. One has to accept the results of the elections, unless they are rigged of course. We had to stand Blair for nearly 15 years here and our family didn't vote for him, but he did have a healthy majority and there was nothing to be done about it.
The reason they consider your country not a democracy, but a regime — is because there is no opposition, no independent media, everything is in the hands of the State. So there is no level playing field for the opposition to grow and thrive. Who knows — if there was, people might not have elected Putin. You might have a new leader in power now. Even though I doubt it to be honest — they would have still elected Putin cause they love him cause of Crimea, etc. But still — well, you get my point, surely.
Now, as regards US interference in the political process in Ukraine- it is not the Americans who offered the Ukrainian Government billions of pounds in order to walk away from his pre election commitment to lead Ukraine to a closer relationship with the EU. It was Putin who did it, sort of tried to bribe him. This is what I call interference, not some «Maidan biscuit» or a silly tape. It is nothing — compared to the scale of Putin's interference with his bribes. And believe me — I do not particularly like the EU. But people there were promised one thing, then some tzar gives another tzar some dosh (that's slang for money) and that is it, he decides to walk all over his promise. This is what was unacceptable to the Ukrainians.

However, I have to tell you that on Ukraine and Crimea and Putin's actions, there were different takes (opinions) here. Quite a few people here supported your point of view and said things like «What the hell are Americans doing there? That's Putin's backyard, etc. «The opinions were split on the issue here — even in the media.
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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2. I think I should add a few words to Oleksa Єromіn explanation about the candidates he ...
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