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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2

  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
17:29 17.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

> Brexit
> In this Westminster battle of the bastards, we’re all going down with the ship
> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/n...
quoted1

What do I think about it? A typical Tory incinerating article from a Labour columnist, a negative Brexit article of which there have been zillions. The accent is placed on bashing the most prominent Torres like Gove, Rees Mogg, etc and voicing concerns for car manufacturing. What is not being mentioned is the fact that Labour got us into this mess in the first place — blairites and Tony Blair in particular. Even in France and Holland people were given the opportunity to vote on the Lisbon Treaty (not that it made any difference, as their votes were ignored, but in this country it would have made a difference and there would have been a lot fewer problems if the Lisbon Treaty was rejected back then , rather than trying to organise Brexit now), Tony Blair just signed everything on behalf of the Brits and opened the doors to all possible immigration, whereas countries such as Denmark and Sweden didn’t.

Yes, car plants will suffer in the event of a no deal, but they will suffer even more on the Continent. We buy in more here than we produce, so in the event of a no deal it is car manufacturing plants in Germany that will suffer the most.

The politicians in Westminster are of course bastards, but Labour would have been even worse if they were in charge. Moreover, in this country they have been losing their image of the party for the working classes for quite a while now — losing votes to the Tories and UKIP in England and SNP in Scotland. This article is kind of an attempt to position themselves as speaking out for the working class at the expense of extensive Tory bashing.
As regards the «sinking ship» — I wouldn’t get overexcited, this country has lived through all sorts of crises for centuries. We are going through some turbulent times now, but this is a walk in the park — compared to what people here experienced in the beginning of the 90s when the country didn’t join the Euro — millions were losing jobs, housing and businesses, the interest rates were 15%, the sterling was kicked out of the Exchange Rate mechanism. Just puts things into perspective.
To someone from Russia this might seem a very gloomy article, here it is nothing out of the ordinary.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
18:23 17.11.2018
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

> The politicians in Westminster are of course bastards, but Labour would have been even worse if they were in charge. Moreover, in this country they have been losing their image of the party for the working classes for quite a while now — losing votes to the Tories and UKIP in England and SNP in Scotland. This article is kind of an attempt to position themselves as speaking out for the working class at the expense of extensive Tory bashing.
> As regards the «sinking ship» — I wouldn’t get overexcited, this country has lived through all sorts of crises for centuries. We are going through some turbulent times now, but this is a walk in the park — compared to what people here experienced in the beginning of the 90s when the country didn’t join the Euro — millions were losing jobs, housing and businesses, the interest rates were 15%, the sterling was kicked out of the Exchange Rate mechanism. Just puts things into perspective.
> To someone from Russia this might seem a very gloomy article, here it is nothing out of the ordinary.
quoted1
Thanks for the detailed answer. It helps me to understand the situation better. I'm not really good at determining which paper is pro-Tory or pro-Labour.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
22:42 17.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Thanks for the detailed answer. It helps me to understand the situation better. I'm not really good at determining which paper is pro-Tory or pro-Labour.
quoted1

I thought I already mentioned it that the Guardian is the main Labour and Lib Dem paper here, the main anti Tory party paper, but never mind. A lot of what that article says is true, the Tories get carried away with the infighting here over the EU so much that they forget about what is at stake sometimes. But they have always been like that. In a way, the article is not that bad in a sense that it does contain some hard truths. That is what democracy is all about. I guess if in Russia someone wrote something like that about the leading politicians in power or «sinking Russian ship» — they would be immediately branded «Russophobes». Here things are different. And I don't think it is a bad thing, it's a good thing.
Why I don't respect Labour is because they didn't have the guts to let people have a say back in 2004 over the Lisbon Treaty (this was by far the biggest transfer of power from the nation states to Brussels and this is when the Eastern European block countries joined in), cause clearly — people here would have rejected it outright and here people's opinion has to be taken into account, this is not Russia, or even France or Holland. At least the Tories kept their promise and carried out the Referendum. Now everyone has to deal with it and it is not easy, but the country will pull through it — it is not the first time that this country has to make difficult decisions as regards the EU. This country is a bit different from France and Germany, it doesn't align itself with any Superstates, never has done. That is why it never joined the Euro currency and vetoed a lot of the Euro projects. To be honest — there are a lot of countries in the EU that are in agreement with Britain (Sweden, Holland, Denmark, lots of people in France and Germany too, even Polland has been rebelling against the EU integrators quite a lot recently), that the EU should have never become some political project and should have always been a free trading community. Once Britain leaves, it will be hard for them to stand their ground within the EU, as they will lose a fantastic ally in that respect.
Also — all negative assumptions are being made at the moment on the basis of the UK doing badly outside the EU and the EU doing fantastic. That is not the case, the EU has a lot of problems. Now the attention is turned to Brexit and away from those problems, but they haven't gone anywhere.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
12:14 18.11.2018
Zac Goldsmith submitted his letter of No Confidence in PM yesterday and he went very public about it with his article in the Telegraph.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/17/...

Bill Cash did as well. Both are quite big figures in the Tory Party.

We will see what happens next week, gripping stuff.]
Thing is — even if she survives as PM, it is looking less and less likely that her deal will make it through the House of Commons.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
00:30 20.11.2018
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Thing is — even if she survives as PM, it is looking less and less likely that her deal will make it through the House of Commons.
quoted1
And when will they vote? This week?
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
00:46 20.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> Thing is — even if she survives as PM, it is looking less and less likely that her deal will make it through the House of Commons.
quoted2
>And when will they vote? This week?
quoted1

There are seven Tories that are preparing for the leadership contest at the moment. Including Johnson, Raab, ete. But first they'll have a go at twisting her hand — like — making some changes to the deal that will make it agreeable with the House of Commons. At the moment -the deal is dead on arrival, no one will ratify it here.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-4625...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/19/...
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
00:50 20.11.2018
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> I guess if in Russia someone wrote something like that about the leading politicians in power or «sinking Russian ship» — they would be immediately branded «Russophobes». Here things are different. And I don't think it is a bad thing, it's a good thing.
quoted1
Your judgments are based on experience you had with trolls who dwell here on politforum with the only purpose — to make you (or people like you) angry. Many people aren't happy about latest reforms, Putin's ratings are relatively low now, so if you criticise him like that you won't be branded as russophobe just because of that. On the other side some attention whores people call anti-Putin politicians make russophobic statements from time to time just to get peoples attention.

Imagine if any British politician makes a statement like «Brits have mentality of slaves» or «majority of Brits are lumpen» I could hardly imagine a successful career for this politician in Britain
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
00:57 20.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
> Imagine if any British policitian makes a statement like «Brits have mentality of slaves» or «majority of Brits are lumpen» I could hardly imagine a successful career for this politician.
>
quoted1
No one can make me angry anyways, apart from my oldest son — he enjoys making me angry so much — he makes me immune to what the rest of the world can offer, let alone some pathetic internet trolls, so — no bother.

I want to make it clear — I DO NOT — think that the Russians are slaves, but their mentality leaves much to be desired — compared to that of the English. And I wish their mentality was more English and less Russian. It would be much better for their country. You can't slag people off for just having an opinion, mate. And this is my opinion — like it or lump it.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
15:20 20.11.2018
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
>> Your judments are based on experience you had with trolls who dwell here on politforum with the only purpose — to make you (or people like you) angry. Many people aren't happy about laters reforms, Putins ratings are relatively low, so if you critisice him like that you won't be branded as russophobe. On the other side some attentionwhores people call anti-Putin politicians are making russophobic statements from time to time just to get peoples attention.
quoted2
>
>>
>> Imagine if any British policitian makes a statement like «Brits have mentality of slaves» or «majority of Brits are lumpen» I could hardly imagine a successful career for this politician.
>>
quoted2
> No one can make me angry anyways, apart from my oldest son — he enjoys making me angry so much — he makes me immune to what the rest of the world can offer, let alone some pathetic internet trolls, so — no bother.
>
> I want to make it clear — I DO NOT — think that the Russians are slaves, but their mentality leaves much to be desired — compared to that of the English. And I wish their mentality was more English and less Russian. It would be much better for their country. You can't slag people off for just having an opinion, mate. And this is my opinion — like it or lump it.
quoted1
It's not about your opinion or anybody else's opinion. Politicians should think twice and choose their words carefully before making official statements. Unless they think less than 2% is good enough for them.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
16:32 20.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
>>> Your judments are based on experience you had with trolls who dwell here on politforum with the only purpose — to make you (or people like you) angry. Many people aren't happy about laters reforms, Putins ratings are relatively low, so if you critisice him like that you won't be branded as russophobe. On the other side some attentionwhores people call anti-Putin politicians are making russophobic statements from time to time just to get peoples attention.
quoted3
>>
>>>
>>> Imagine if any British policitian makes a statement like «Brits have mentality of slaves» or «majority of Brits are lumpen» I could hardly imagine a successful career for this politician.
>>>
quoted3
>> No one can make me angry anyways, apart from my oldest son — he enjoys making me angry so much — he makes me immune to what the rest of the world can offer, let alone some pathetic internet trolls, so — no bother.
>>
>> I want to make it clear — I DO NOT — think that the Russians are slaves, but their mentality leaves much to be desired — compared to that of the English. And I wish their mentality was more English and less Russian. It would be much better for their country. You can't slag people off for just having an opinion, mate. And this is my opinion — like it or lump it.
quoted2
>It's not about your opinion or anybody else's opinion. Politicians should think twice and choose their words carefully before making official statements. Unless they think less than 2% is good enough for them.
quoted1

It is about just that. Anyone in your country with an opinion different to that of the Kremlin is branded a Russophob. And those who agree with the Kremlin regardless are so called «patriots». It is a sick situation whereby the notion of Russophobia as well as the notion of patriotism are both discredited.
As for a careful choice of words by politicians, you should concentrate more on what your politicians do and not what they say. The more of them fight for the public opinion, the better.
If your people take such a deep offence at what sone politician said that they are prepared to put up with 98% of power belonging to Putin’s clan — then they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces, i e. — they are making the situation worse for themselves in the first place.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
18:40 20.11.2018
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Anyone in your country with an opinion different to that of the Kremlin is branded a Russophob
quoted1
Navalny isn't branded a Russophobe for example. Actually, very few freaks are. Making statements like that you show that some trolls partly achieved their aim. They influence your opinion too much.

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> If your people take such a deep offence at what sone politician said that they are prepared to put up with 98% of power belonging to Putin’s clan — then they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces, i e. — they are making the situation worse for themselves in the first place.
quoted1
In any country people won't vote for freaks and assclowns who insult them. As I said before thanks to Putin we don't have a decent opposition atm. Probably there won't be any till Putin resigns.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
20:27 20.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> Anyone in your country with an opinion different to that of the Kremlin is branded a Russophob
quoted2
>Navalny isn't branded a Russophobe for example. Actually, very few freaks are. Making statements like that you show that some trolls partly achieved their aim. They influence your opinion too much.
>
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> If your people take such a deep offence at what sone politician said that they are prepared to put up with 98% of power belonging to Putin’s clan — then they are cutting off their noses to spite their faces, i e. — they are making the situation worse for themselves in the first place.
quoted2
>In any country people won't vote for freaks and assclowns who insult them. As I said before thanks to Putin we don't have a decent opposition atm. Probably there won't be any till Putin resigns.
quoted1

What do you mean by «trolls partly achieved their aim? «Please explain.
The strong language you come up with like «assclowns», «freaks «is of course in reference to Putin’s opponents, how very predictable- coming from yourself. I remember vaguely the thread «Russophobia «or something where you used to post tons of disgraceful stuff about the Russian opposition, slagging them off — just like you are doing now.
Talking of freaks — Putin saying that Russians will go to paradise whilst people in the West will end up in hell (after the unpopular pension reform) — was probably the freakiest thing I have ever heard any politician say. Even Hitler never came up with such chauvinistic stuff.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
21:24 20.11.2018
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> What do you mean by «trolls partly achieved their aim? «Please explain.
> The strong language you come up with like «assclowns», «freaks «is of course in reference to Putin’s opponents, how very predictable- coming from yourself. I remember vaguely the thread «Russophobia «or something where you used to post tons of disgraceful stuff about the Russian opposition, slagging them off — just like you are doing now.
> Talking of freaks — Putin saying that Russians will go to paradise whilst people in the West will end up in hell (after the unpopular pension reform) — was probably the freakiest thing I have ever heard any politician say. Even Hitler never came up with such chauvinistic stuff.
quoted1

> Just a few photos as an example (expand)

I won't support freaks and assclowns just because they oppose Putin.

I agree that what Putin said was very stupid, but you completely changed the meaning of his words. He said that if you attack us with nuclear weapons all will die, but Russians will go to heaven as martyrs (because we were only defending).

Again, please don't use this forum as a decent source of information. No offence.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
21:35 20.11.2018
Unlike Britain Russia is ready to use nuclear weapons only in response to direct nuclear attack (or direct non-nuclear attack if the very existence of Russia is in danger).

Your PM said that she is prepared to use nuclear weapons if Britain enters into a war with Russia. Even if that strike would kill «one hundred thousand innocent men, women and children».
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/t...

Unlike you, we don't have the possibility of preemptive nuclear strike in our war doctrine

"27. Российская Федерация оставляет за собой право применить ядерное оружие в ответ на применение против нее и (или) ее союзников ядерного и других видов оружия массового поражения, а также в случае агрессии против Российской Федерации с применением обычного оружия, когда под угрозу поставлено само существование государства."
http://legalacts.ru/doc/voennaja-doktrina-rossi...
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
21:55 20.11.2018
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Just one photo as an example. It speaks for itself
>
quoted1
Is that really representative of all the Russian opposition? I don't think so. I think you are a bit biased. There are clever and smart people there, I refuse to believe that anyone smart would be supporting Putin. But sod it, I don't live there anyway, so I don't really care all that much. I think that Putin plays very well on that Soviet mentality — where people prefer a totalitarian set up, see it as some form of stability. It is not just his fault, it is the fault of the Russians themselves just as much. But this generation of people who witnessed the break up of the Soviet Union, then the dreadful 90s, etc. — they will be gone/become old and the new generation won't remember any of that and they will be different. You know — there was a massive crisis in the 90s here as well — but no one here blames Russia for it, people look to themselves for answers and don't blame anyone else — like they do in Russia.

Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Again, please don't use this forum as a decent source of information. No offence.
>
quoted1
So you think that this forum is not representative at all of what people think in Russia?
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

>
> Unlike you, we don't have the possibility of preemptive nuclear strike in our war doctrine
> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/t...
quoted1
>

I didn't know that. They don't talk about nukes here or show threatening cartoons like they do in Russia. Your Putin does that quite a lot. It is very stupid. I mean — it is probably done for the benefit of the internal audience, as they like that kind of thing — «a macho throwing his weight around», here it is considered in bad taste. And makes Russian image in the world worse.
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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2. What do I think about it? A typical Tory incinerating article from a Labour columnist, a ...
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