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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2

  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
16:32 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> literature reflects society the best
quoted1

You can't live your life relying on literature. The world evolves, it doesn't stand still. Russian classical literature is very critical of Russia, which reflects the concept of democracy in those days. Here — all the press is very critical of whatever is going on here. Russia used to be the same in that sense. At the moment — they are swamped by pseudo patriotic propaganda, but that is temporary. You can't just pick out the negatives from their literature and parade it like «Look, Russia is bad, we are great, we are different». It is laughable really mate.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
17:49 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> And also I reckon that Soviet and Russian society are not used to the private property like the Western society.
quoted1

Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Compared to Britain — no, they don't respect private property. They are a lawless, corrupt country. The reason their successful businessmen prefer to keep their money here is because ultimately — there is an utmost respect here for the private property. No one will come and just take what is yours — cause of your political beliefs, or sexuality or whatever. Magna Carta is the document which reflects the respect for private property. No wonder that most off shores around the world are under British jurisdiction. Americans undermine that concept a lot with their political sanctions and that, which is sad.
quoted1
Ok, but how is it related to Russian culture?

As far as I remember our conversation started after this post (which is false obviously)
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Russia was always on the outskirts of the world economy and culture
quoted1

Anyway, I'm okay if somebody finds me less European than typical Ukrainian or Brit. I just don't care much about it. I have a friend in Japan, he doesn't care much about being Asian. He is Asian and he knows it ). I bet Redhead also doesn't care much about looking like European or thinking like European because she is European after all

P.S. I think it isn't healthy to think that European people are better than Asian people by default or smth like that.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
17:54 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Ok, but how is it related to Russian culture?
quoted1

Of course it is related to the culture. Respect for property, rights, etc. — it runs in one's veins. All that was methodically destroyed in your country — during the Communist years. The mentality is deeply damaged and it will take not just one, but a few generations to build it back up.
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Anyway, I'm okay if somebody finds me less European than typical Ukrainian or Brit. I just don't care much about it.
quoted1

I find you European. You are lovely, don't be so sad.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
18:04 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> I find you European. You are lovely, don't be so sad.
quoted1
Thanks, I'm not sad


Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Of course it is related to the culture.
quoted1
May be «mentality» is more appropriate.
I was surprised to see someone talking about Russian culture like that

«thanks» to their propaganda some Ukrainians think Europeans are better than Asians (for example) in general. In my opinion that borders on racism. I also think that some Ukrainians have a kind of inferiority complex.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
18:07 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> bet Redhead also doesn't care much about looking like European or thinking like European because she is European after all
quoted1

I pride myself on my Russian heritage, although over here — no one takes me as a Russian, they think of me as Irish here a lot. Because also my accent is slightly Irish and ginger hair and all that. No one asks me anymore «Where do you come from?» like they used to when I was a teen.
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> P.S. I think it isn't healthy to think that European people are better than Asian people by default or smth like that.
quoted1

I am not a racist and don't dislike Asians, however. Britain should be Britain. I wrote before on this forum this story — this is from my husband's experiences. He had an Asian Indian mate at the Uni and they went to a pub one night and were discussing the upcoming elections. And his Indian mate was going to vote for BNP (these are proper Nazis — you know, Tommy Robinson, Nick Griffin and all that), there was no Nigel Farage or UKIP back then. And my husband was like «Are you nuts? Gone off the rails? How can you even contemplate voting for BNP, you are bloody Indian?» and he said back «Yeah, I am Indian, but I came to Britain. If I want to be in India, I will go back to India. I want Britain to stay Britain and not to become India.»
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
18:09 20.02.2019
Grin (25771), ⍟ Redhead (Expat), you've convinced me. Trying to discuss culture in general and just cover it superficially without any application has no practical sense. I have nothing to add.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
18:13 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> I am not a racist and don't dislike Asians, however. Britain should be Britain. I wrote before on this forum this story — this is from my husband's experiences. He had an Asian Indian mate at the Uni and they went to a pub one night and were discussing the upcoming elections. And his Indian mate was going to vote for BNP (these are proper Nazis — you know, Tommy Robinson, Nick Griffin and all that), there was no Nigel Farage or UKIP back then. And my husband was like «Are you nuts? Gone off the rails? How can you even contemplate voting for BNP, you are bloody Indian?» and he said back «Yeah, I am Indian, but I came to Britain. If I want to be in India, I will go back to India. I want Britain to stay Britain and not to become India.»
quoted1
This is different. It is called conservatism nowadays. I also want Europe to stay Europe (not Africa or smth like that).
But some Ukrainians seriously think they are better than Russians because they are more European (both statements are debatable in my opinion). I think that is why Oleksa Єromіn is trying so hard to prove Russia is less European than Germany, Ukraine etc.
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER), do I get it right?
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
18:16 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> I am not a racist and don't dislike Asians, however. Britain should be Britain. I wrote before on this forum this story — this is from my husband's experiences. He had an Asian Indian mate at the Uni and they went to a pub one night and were discussing the upcoming elections. And his Indian mate was going to vote for BNP (these are proper Nazis — you know, Tommy Robinson, Nick Griffin and all that), there was no Nigel Farage or UKIP back then. And my husband was like «Are you nuts? Gone off the rails? How can you even contemplate voting for BNP, you are bloody Indian?» and he said back «Yeah, I am Indian, but I came to Britain. If I want to be in India, I will go back to India. I want Britain to stay Britain and not to become India.»
quoted2
>This is different. It is called conservatism nowadays. I also want Europe to stay Europe (not Africa or smth like that).
> But some Ukrainians seriously think they are better than Russians because they are more European (both statements are false in my opinion). I think that is why Oleksa Єromіn is trying so hard to prove Russia is less European than Germany, Ukraine etc.
quoted1

Russia is a magnificent country, very European. Russia will catch up very quickly with Europe. Their minds are European — look at the music they like (I was gobsmacked to find out that people here — Solvejg, Max Kuzin, Moren, etc — know such a lot about British music, all the trends, etc), their fashion, everything about them is very European, but with a twist of course. They are of course Russian as well. Just European Russians.
Liked: Grin
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
18:17 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> But some Ukrainians seriously think they are better than Russians because they are more European (both statements are false in my opinion). I think that is why Oleksa Єromіn is trying so hard to prove Russia is less European than Germany, Ukraine etc.
quoted1
Wrong answer. It is indifferent for me to speak with Indian (I knew one in my school), Russian or African. Shortly my thesis is that Ukraine is not Russia. You may have much bigger and deeper culture (and you have it), but I don't want my own heritage be replaced with yours, or German, or Chinese, or American and whatever else.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
18:28 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Wrong answer. It is indifferent for me to speak with Indian (I knew one in my school), Russian or African. Shortly my thesis is that Ukraine is not Russia. You may have much bigger and deeper culture (and you have it), but I don't want my own heritage be replaced with yours, or German, or Chinese, or American and whatever else.
quoted1
Glad to hear you don't think Ukrainians are better than Russians because they are more European

But I still don't get it why you think breaking economic ties with Russia was Poroshenko's victory. Unlike «tomos» it really affected your life, made it harder. Look at Belarus, they are developing their own culture and trade with Russia.
If you think trading with Russia contributes to the conflict, I assure you that Putin won't send more money to DNR or LNR if trade turnover between Russia and Ukraine rises. He just gives them enough to survive.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
18:30 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Shortly my thesis is that Ukraine is not Russia.
quoted1

You know, you remind me so much of the Irish. Ireland is a separate country now, but everything there is British, copied from Britain — even double deckers (double decker buses) — I did a report here from Cork last year — specifically for the forum, have a look — Cork, Kinsale, etc. They are exactly the same as the English. Noone wants to speak Eire in Ireland — they speak English, live English, sing inEnglish. Albeit — with an accent of course, but every town and province here have their own accents. They draw from the English culture and they can' t help it.
You want to break off from Russia. Why? Russia is amazing. It is all because of Putin and Crimea and Donbass, isn't it? Well, This will pass, it is like dust. It will pass — all that Putinism there. They are reliving their own troubles — they were an Empire, had the USSR and all that and it is very painful for them to lose it all. They are still coming to terms with that. When they are finished with that process (coming to terms with it), there will be no stopping them. They have a lot of potential you know.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7073
18:42 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Excuse me, you annexed our territory and support separatists on the East. It is obvious many people in Ukraine want Russia to weaken, for it means that you won't give those gangs guns and less people will die tomorrow because of your shells and bullets. It is easy to make business not receiving news that your son or friend or relative has died during another bombardment.
quoted1
The problem is many Ukrainians are rdy to suffer just to see Russia weakened. Well, many Russians rdy to suffer just to see we counter US in Syria, etc. If you ask typical vatnik about Putin, he will answer that Putin is not so good in internal affairs, but he is very good at international affairs. That reminds me of some Ukrainians when they talk about Poroshenko. It is much easier to declare «tomos» a big deal than to make life of ordinary Ukrainians better. Many Ukrainians say that sanctions against Russia is Poroshenko's victory. But could it happen if US officials were against sanctions? If you look closely at anti-Russian sanctions you'll see that they give US some advantages (in weapons trade, gas trade etc). So I think we should «thank» US state dep first, not Poroshenko.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
00:50 21.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Glad to hear you don't think Ukrainians are better than Russians because they are more European
quoted1
I am taken aback that somebody could even accuse me of this, seriously. Please, let's not return to that topic.
> But I still don't get it why you think breaking economic ties with Russia was Poroshenko's victory. Unlike «tomos» it really affected your life, made it harder. Look at Belarus, they are developing their own culture and trade with Russia.
quoted1
between Russia and Ukraine rises.
Many Belorussians here say that their culture is stagnating and language was ultimately abandoned (even though before Lukashenko they started with the same position as Ukraine) so it's not a good example.

By breaking ties I mean that we are less dependent on Russia now. Always when Ukraine moved from Russia, it used gas to make us infamous in eyes of Europe and freeze us. But now it is no longer relevant. About Thomos I said earlier.
> If you think trading with Russia contributes to the conflict, I assure you that Putin won't send more money to DNR or LNR if trade turnover
quoted1
Putin doesn't need Ukraine at all. Remember about «failed state», «nationalistic junta», «we could win without their khelp», «we are one nation» etc?
> He just gives them enough to survive.
quoted1
Rockets and bullets, I suppose, are eaten?
Ukrainian government guarantees not to persecute anyone from separatists who hasn't taken part in killing and commanding those ragtag-mercanary army. They also provide pensions and social help, charity funds and volunteers are also helping everybody near the frontline. Poroshenko always tells that on the East of that line live our compatriots, Ukrainian citizens with full rights. But Putin doesn't care about that. He needs some puppet states to keep tension in Ukraine and make the world forget about Crimea.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12195
01:16 21.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
>> Shortly my thesis is that Ukraine is not Russia.
quoted2
>
> You know, you remind me so much of the Irish. Ireland is a separate country now, but everything there is British, copied from Britain — even double deckers (double decker buses) — I did a report here from Cork last year — specifically for the forum, have a look — Cork, Kinsale, etc. They are exactly the same as the English. Noone wants to speak Eire in Ireland — they speak English, live English, sing inEnglish. Albeit — with an accent of course, but every town and province here have their own accents. They draw from the English culture and they can' t help it.
> You want to break off from Russia. Why? Russia is amazing. It is all because of Putin and Crimea and Donbass, isn't it? Well, This will pass, it is like dust. It will pass — all that Putinism there. They are reliving their own troubles — they were an Empire, had the USSR and all that and it is very painful for them to lose it all. They are still coming to terms with that. When they are finished with that process (coming to terms with it), there will be no stopping them. They have a lot of potential you know.
quoted1
It is not Donbass and Crimea. It is Russian, then Soviet, discrimination of Ukrainian language and culture, about genocide, about violating our treaties in Pereyaslav, about deportations, exploitation and a lot of other. It is about Russians who have never ever seen (and now too) an equal one before them, but a silly little brother with 'хаты', 'дивчыны' and 'галушки' that with some miracle obtained the independent state. It is very long subject to speculate. It wasn't even enough ten volumes of Hrushevskyy's 'Історія України-Руси' to cover even quarter of it. But if you are not particularly interested in Ukrainian-Russian relations as you told Aquarius, it won't have much sense to describe it all with references, facts and their analysis.

And I want to assure you, that this:
Expand message beginning

> Noone wants to speak Eire in Ireland —
> they speak English,
> live English, sing inEnglish.
quoted1
Is even in one third not true about Ukraine and Russia.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 16334
11:01 21.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> t is not Donbass and Crimea. It is Russian, then Soviet, discrimination of Ukrainian language and culture, about genocide, about violating our treaties in Pereyaslav, about deportations, exploitation and a lot of other. It is about Russians who have never ever seen (and now too) an equal one before them, but a silly little brother with 'хаты', 'дивчыны' and 'галушки' that with some miracle obtained the independent state. It is very long subject to speculate. It wasn't even enough ten volumes of Hrushevskyy's 'Історія України-Руси' to cover even quarter of it. But if you are not particularly interested in Ukrainian-Russian relations as you told Aquarius, it won't have much sense to describe it all with references, facts and their analysis.
quoted1

It is not so much that I am not interested in Ukraine Russia relations — I am just sick to death of seeing Russians and Ukrainians at each others' throats here. Sick of it. You are as bad as each other. It is not their fault that they had Communism and spread it around. You can't just put the blame at their doorstep. You are making a national issue out of it. The truth of the matter is Communism was a tragedy both for them and for yourselves. They suffered just as much as you did.
Liked: Grin
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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2. You can't live your life relying on literature. The world evolves, it doesn't stand ...
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