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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2

  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 17247
01:19 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> What the rubbish did you write?! Where have I written any bullshit about 'better culture'? If, for example, I will tell that Ukrainian culture is closer to the European than Turkish, would you call that 'supremacist'?
quoted1

Please try and mind your manners when you are talking to me, I live in England after all. You do try to oppose Russia in a way that claims that you are somehow «more European». You are not. Russia is Europe as well. Yeah, of course you are more European than the Turks, of course you are. You see, for you — joining the EU is everything, it is your dream. But I am afraid that the EU does not equal European culture. What if tomorrow some African countries are accepted in the EU? What are you gonna do then? The European identity runs in one's veins, you don't have to join an undemocratic USSR type of an organisation to prove you are a European. You honestly don't mate.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12304
01:43 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> Well, you keep saying that you are closer to Europe and want to break away from the Russian culture. Come on. Russia is not Europe now? Russia is Europe all the way up to the Ural Mountains last time I checked. Your quest to break away from Russia is pathetic. Your idea of Europe is joining the EU. To be honest mate — EU is not the idea of Europe in Britain, the EU is hated all over Europe.
quoted1
OK, I will try to explain my position here detailed.

I am not saying that Russian culture is worse than others. It is the same size and importance as British, German and French. But I reckon that Russian culture is more remoted from these 3 ones than they are between themselves. I have concluded that reading Russian classical literature. It has its own personages and covers its own themes. Just compare Rudin, Gerasim, Myshkin, Chatskiy with Rebecca Sharp, Julien Sorel, Faust and Oliver Twist. Or the main themes of Shchedrin's tale of the city and of Gulliver. It is about Russia — Europe.

And now about Russia — Ukraine. I don't want my country to be a forgotten by God province. I am not bothered with problems of some Siberian men depicted in 'Leviathan'. I want to see a movie about Ukraine and our own business. I don't want to read about Russian democracy building processes depicted in 'Учебник рисования' or Sorokin's satire on modern Russian mentality. I want to read about our own problems and our own society. I don't want to listen to those pathetic imitations of Russian chanson or rap. I want to hear decent and modern Ukrainian music.

I am not fighting against the decent Russian culture. Our country, being so much time a province, 'The South of Russia', hasn't become Russian in culture and mentality. But our population, driven by notions of their own culture defectiveness (neatly planted by Soviet propaganda), is trying to copy some 'higher' culture, alien to them, and, like nabobs from 90-s buying some modern crude trash they considered to be a work of art, importing the worst examples of it and completely disdains their own treasures.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 17247
01:51 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
Expand message beginning

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quoted1
Your problem is this. Honestly, this is how I see it — from the side. You were «oppressed «in the USSR, etc. But you are so used to be that way, so you are hurrying to join another organisation — which is pretty much — a similar undemocratic arrangement. You need to BELONG somewhere, you don't care where. You don't even think about it. The reason I respect Russia more is precisely because they oppose the EU. I don't care about all these writers etc. — about «third way», etc. — you are just trying to present Russia as underdogs. And it is laughable really, Russia will always have a voice over yours — when it comes to the international affairs, they are big.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12304
01:57 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat), I was grown with Russian culture. And insinuations that I despise it insult me deeply. Sorry if I have offended you with my tone, but I can't stand it if somebody is speaking not to me personally but to some shapeless mass of people for you continue speaking that it is my dream (?!) for Ukraine to join EU, maybe projecting the views of some stereotypical Ukrainian on me.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 17247
02:03 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> ⍟ Redhead (Expat), I was grown with Russian culture. And insinuations that I despise it insult me deeply. Sorry if I have offended you with my tone, but I can't stand it if somebody is speaking not to me personally but to some shapeless mass of people for you continue speaking that it is my dream (?!) for Ukraine to join EU, maybe projecting the views of some stereotypical Ukrainian on me.
quoted1

I do project my views to you as a stereotypical Ukrainian, I do apologize, please do not take offence. But really — honestly — the EU is a rotten organisation - undemocratic, corrupt, rotten to the core. This film was made by Sir James Goldsmith 20 years ago — there was no UKIP then or anything and people here were unhappy with it even back then. Please watch it and see what you think. This was shot decades ago by Zac Goldsmith's Dad

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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12304
02:03 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> I don't care about all these writers etc. — about «third way», etc.
quoted1
If you don't care and don't want to understand what am I talking about really (and I am not talking about EU, foreign affairs or economy at all), I don't see any sense in continuing this discussion.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 17247
02:07 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
>> I don't care about all these writers etc. — about «third way», etc.
quoted2
>If you don't care and don't want to understand what am I talking about really (and I am not talking about EU, foreign affairs or economy at all), I don't see any sense in continuing this discussion.
quoted1

I honestly do not care about those writers, no one here does. If you want to leave the discussion — please do, have a fantastic time and cheerio
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12304
09:18 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> t care about those writers, no one here does. If you want to leave the discussion — please do, have a fantastic time and cheerio
quoted1
It is not about writers but about you thrusting that goddamn EU into every topic that is not even slightly connected to it.

If you want to know my position on the EU, here it is. And I am sure I will be supported by my compatriots on this forum. I don't care if my country joins the EU or not. Even if we succeed in it, we will do that in a couple of decades. I care about my country to change from that corrupted and ineffective system we have to a better one and the EU mentoring this process at this moment is much better than nothing. If during our path the situation in the EU will get worse, I am sure that Ukrainians will abandon that idea. It is a question of rationalism and not emotion and absolutely not of 'just to join EU to call ourselves Europe'.

It was very interesting and really enjoyable to have conversation with you. So long.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7412
11:00 20.02.2019
Hi all
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER),
Excuse me are you trying to prove that Russian culture is less European because there were number of writers and other notable figures in Russian history who claimed Russia is not Europe? However, there was another group called «Западники», they were claiming the opposite. As for me the fact that some famous Russian writers were saying that Russia isn’t Europe doesn't make Russian culture less European. FYI there were Brits who claimed Britain isn’t Europe, Britain has its own way etc.
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7412
11:21 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> If you don't care and don't want to understand what am I talking about really (and I am not talking about EU, foreign affairs or economy at all), I don't see any sense in continuing this discussion
quoted1
Your propagandists were telling you for years that joining EU means high salaries, decent life, the rule of law etc. I bet it is obvious for you now that it isn’t true. You have to do it yourselves, no one will come and do it for you with a magic wand. In fact, no one is interested in high salaries, decent life and the rule of law in Ukraine but ordinary Ukrainians. The problem is many Ukrainians are heavily brainwashed nowadays and they care about sanctions against Russia more than about their own welfare. As an example, you see breaking economic ties with Russia as Poroshenko’s victory. Your country lost several billion dollars because of it, which is a big deal for you since your country’s economy is not so big. Ukraine could easily avoid it if Poroshenko didn’t choose the course of maximum confrontation with Russia.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 17247
11:35 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
>> If you don't care and don't want to understand what am I talking about really (and I am not talking about EU, foreign affairs or economy at all), I don't see any sense in continuing this discussion
quoted2
>Your propaganda were telling you for years that joining EU means high salaries, decent life, the rule of law etc. I bet it is obvious for you now that it isn’t true. You have to do it yourselves, no one will come and do it for you with a magic wand. In fact, no one is interested in high salaries, decent life and the rule of law in Ukraine but ordinary Ukrainians. The problem is many Ukrainians are heavily brainwashed nowadays and they care about sanctions against Russia more than about their own wealth. As an example, you see breaking economic ties with Russia as Poroshenko’s victory. Your country lost several billion dollars because of it, which is a big deal for you since your country’s economy is not so big. Ukraine could easily avoid it if Poroshenko didn’t choose the course of maximum confrontation with Russia.
quoted1

In terms of high salaries, etc. — the EU has been on the decline in that sense. There has been austerity policies — on a massive scale in the EU for years now. Hence — the gilets jaunde, etc. So many countries in the EU are in poverty now. Italy, Spain, Greece — are turning into third world countries at the moment. I mean — Ukrainians — they look at Poland and aspire to Poland, but Poland is a unique case, they were in the right place at the right time. But even they are not happy with the EU these days.
Liked: Grin
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  Grin
25771


Messages: 7412
15:02 20.02.2019
Redhead (Expat) wrote in reply to post:
> The EU couldn't give a toss about Ukraine, there is a bigger fish to fry
quoted1
Same goes to the US. I doubt Ukraine is in top 10 in Trump's to do list.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12304
16:00 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Hi all
> ⍟ Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER),
> Excuse me are you trying to prove that Russian culture is less European because there were number of writers and other notable figures in Russian history who claimed Russia is not Europe? However, there was another group called «Западники», they were claiming the opposite. As for me the fact that some famous Russian writers were saying that Russia isn’t Europe doesn't make Russian culture less European. FYI there were Brits who claimed Britain isn’t Europe, Britain has its own way etc.
quoted1
I have explained it in my post higher. It's about a comparison of typical literature personages in Russian literature and in French, English and German ones. In my opinion, literature reflects society the best. And also I reckon that Soviet and Russian society are not used to the private property like the Western society.
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  Oleksa Єromіn
WILDTRACER


Messages: 12304
16:14 20.02.2019
Grin (25771) wrote in reply to post:
> Your propagandists were telling you for years that joining EU means high salaries, decent life, the rule of law etc. I bet it is obvious for you now that it isn’t true. You have to do it yourselves, no one will come and do it for you with a magic wand. In fact, no one is interested in high salaries, decent life and the rule of law in Ukraine but ordinary Ukrainians.
quoted1
It is obvious for everyone in Ukraine that only Ukrainians can make their life better. You can read, for example, «УП» or «Тиждень». Only a lazy one doesn't talk about that. And even in Ukraine there are dozens of Eurosceptics (and not only Boyko-Medvedchuk trash).
> The problem is many Ukrainians are heavily brainwashed nowadays and they care about sanctions against Russia more than about their own welfare. As an example, you see breaking economic ties with Russia as Poroshenko’s victory. Your country lost several billion dollars because of it, which is a big deal for you since your country’s economy is not so big. Ukraine could easily avoid it if Poroshenko didn’t choose the course of maximum confrontation with Russia.
quoted1
Excuse me, you annexed our territory and support separatists on the East. It is obvious many people in Ukraine want Russia to weaken, for it means that you won't give those gangs guns and less people will die tomorrow because of your shells and bullets. It is easy to make business not receiving news that your son or friend or relative has died during another bombardment.
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  Redhead
Expat


Messages: 17247
16:22 20.02.2019
Oleksa Єromіn (WILDTRACER) wrote in reply to post:
> I have explained it in my post higher. It's about a comparison of typical literature personages in Russian literature and in French, English and German ones. In my opinion, literature reflects society the best. And also I reckon that Soviet and Russian society are not used to the private property like the Western society.
quoted1


Compared to Britain — no, they don't respect private property. They are a lawless, corrupt country. The reason their successful businessmen prefer to keep their money here is because ultimately — there is an utmost respect here for the private property. No one will come and just take what is yours — cause of your political beliefs, or sexuality or whatever. Magna Carta is the document which reflects the respect for private property. No wonder that most off shores around the world are under British jurisdiction. Americans undermine that concept a lot with their political sanctions and that, which is sad.
However, where do you come from saying that the respect for private property is better in your country — better than in Russia? You experienced the same things as Russia did — Communism, etc. You can destroy as many monuments as you like, but it is not about that. It takes ages for the mentality to change. If anything — in Russia they will get to it quicker, cause they are making more money than you, they are heading Forbes lists of billionaires, etc. And what is good about them is they are proud — they don't need anything from anyone, they are not praying to join EU or whatever, they are just doing their thing and they deserve respect.
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Figure skating, ballet, music etc 2. Please try and mind your manners when you are talking to me, I live in England after all. You ...
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